Friend or Foe?

[Rhyshaelkan]

The Artemis Project (http://www.asi.org/index2.html)

The Mars Society (http://www.marssociety.org/portal)

We are not the only ones that want to reach space. Cooperation? Division?

[joertexas]

The Artemis Project (http://www.asi.org/index2.html)

The Mars Society (http://www.marssociety.org/portal)

We are not the only ones that want to reach space. Cooperation? Division?

PERMANENT's stated goal is to aid these efforts by emplacing the infrastructure that will make these missons possible.

JR

[Phenix]

The Artemis Project (http://www.asi.org/index2.html)

The Mars Society (http://www.marssociety.org/portal)



Moon society, Mars society with some sort of Marketing of Luna and Mars as products reacheable just with no constraits. What the heck does it mean ? It has no sense.

[Sam Fraser]

Yes, joertexas. No one went broke selling shovels to golddiggers. :)

[Rhyshaelkan]

Ran across this site today.
http://www.moonminer.com/L1_spacestation.html

More cool info and ideas about space manufacture from astro resources.

[joertexas]

Yes, joertexas. No one went broke selling shovels to golddiggers. :)

A fact which must warm Elon Musk's heart every time he thinks of it ;-)

JR

[Rhyshaelkan]

Did you get the SpaceX update email the other day? They hope to launch the inaugural F9 in one to three months.

Some might curse the delays, they were supposed to launch at the end of 2009. But I know their pockets are not as deep as NASA's government organization pockets. So I would rather them do it slow and steady. Prove to others the viability of their system. I really hope the F9H is all they want it to be.

[joertexas]

Did you get the SpaceX update email the other day? They hope to launch the inaugural F9 in one to three months.

Some might curse the delays, they were supposed to launch at the end of 2009. But I know their pockets are not as deep as NASA's government organization pockets. So I would rather them do it slow and steady. Prove to others the viability of their system. I really hope the F9H is all they want it to be.


I hope so, too, especially considering that we're planning to use the F9H for our manned mission :-)

JR

[HopDavid]

The Artemis Project (http://www.asi.org/index2.html)

The Mars Society (http://www.marssociety.org/portal)

We are not the only ones that want to reach space. Cooperation? Division?

Earth Moon Lagrange 1 (EML1) is quite close to many NEAs. Round trip delta V between EML1 and an NEA could be as low as 2 km/s.

And lunar volatiles are only 2.5 km/s away from EML1. Earth's surface is about 13 or 14 km/s from EML1.

Lunar volatiles can provide more than propellant. They can also provide water for radiation shielding, water to drink and air to breathe. A fully stocked and fueled NEA ship departing from EML1 is much more doable than an NEA ship departing from LEO.

So I believe the Spudis (http://www.amazon.com/Blogging-Moon-Once-Future-Collection/dp/1926837177) and Lewis (http://www.amazon.com/Mining-Sky-Untold-Asteroids-Planets/dp/0201328194) camps should be strong allies.

There are several flavors of Mars advocates. The Zubrinistas advocate flushing every other space development down the toilet and shooting HLVs straight for Mars. Architectures relying on throwaway HLVs aren't sustainable and they would not enable development of either moon, NEAs or Mars. I think of this camp as foes.

Those Mars advocates who want to use NEAs and the moon to help build a sustainable architecture are potential allies. Phobos and Deimos are bodies that should should attract the interest of both Mars and asteroid enthusiasts.

[joertexas]

Earth Moon Lagrange 1 (EML1) is quite close to many NEAs. Round trip delta V between EML1 and an NEA could be as low as 2 km/s.

And lunar volatiles are only 2.5 km/s away from EML1. Earth's surface is about 13 or 14 km/s from EML1.

Lunar volatiles can provide more than propellant. They can also provide water for radiation shielding, water to drink and air to breathe. A fully stocked and fueled NEA ship departing from EML1 is much more doable than an NEA ship departing from LEO.

So I believe the Spudis (http://www.amazon.com/Blogging-Moon-Once-Future-Collection/dp/1926837177) and Lewis (http://www.amazon.com/Mining-Sky-Untold-Asteroids-Planets/dp/0201328194) camps should be strong allies.

There are several flavors of Mars advocates. The Zubrinistas advocate flushing every other space development down the toilet and shooting HLVs straight for Mars. Architectures relying on throwaway HLVs aren't sustainable and they would not enable development of either moon, NEAs or Mars. I think of this camp as foes.

Those Mars advocates who want to use NEAs and the moon to help build a sustainable architecture are potential allies. Phobos and Deimos are bodies that should should attract the interest of both Mars and asteroid enthusiasts.

I'd love to see manned missions to Mars, but I think it will take spacecraft built from lunar resources to do it. I helped put together a proposal called "Moon Shot" to begin that process..

JR

[HopDavid]

I'd love to see manned missions to Mars, but I think it will take spacecraft built from lunar resources to do it. I helped put together a proposal called "Moon Shot" to begin that process..

JR

Is the proposal available online?

[joertexas]

Is the proposal available online?

I've posted about it extensively on this forum, but I haven't put it anywhere else.

JR

[HopDavid]

I've posted about it extensively on this forum, but I haven't put it anywhere else.

JR

I like the posts of yours that I've read so far. It seems you've studied delta Vs to neighboring bodies and concluded that the proximity of lunar volatiles to EML1 and 2 could be a major game changer in a number of ways. If so, we have a lot in common.

The discussions on this forum will take me awhile to digest. Are there any particular threads discussing "Moon Shot" you'd recommend? I am very interested in this topic.

[joertexas]

I like the posts of yours that I've read so far. It seems you've studied delta Vs to neighboring bodies and concluded that the proximity of lunar volatiles to EML1 and 2 could be a major game changer in a number of ways. If so, we have a lot in common.

The discussions on this forum will take me awhile to digest. Are there any particular threads discussing "Moon Shot" you'd recommend? I am very interested in this topic.

http://www.forumlog.com/nanobiotechnologyspace/showthread.php?t=494
http://www.forumlog.com/nanobiotechnologyspace/showthread.php?t=382


These are two of the main threads in the public part of the forum. There are other related threads in the Mission Planning folder about other aspects of the mission.

JR

[Sam Fraser]

The Planetary Society (http://planetary.org/home/).

I'd classify them as "potential friend". They've funded some interesting projects (http://planetary.org/programs/) themselves, although I get the feeling they view actual development of space resources as crass commercialism.

[JohnHunt]

Technologically we may have some friends within NASA. Down at Johnson Space Center the team who works on Robonaut, I believe, is also working on GENIE, an automated lunar lander with help from Armadillo.

Here is an interesting quote from their website:
http://robonaut.jsc.nasa.gov/future/HistoryandPhilosophy/ Second, we had seen the value of non-traditional partnerships. At that time last fall we were still not able to discuss our work with GM due to our confidentiality agreement, but we were extremely proud of the partnership and what we had accomplished. More pertinent we saw the unexpected benefits and expertise that was gained. We had also been working with Armadillo Aerospace for a few years. Again, it is a partnership where we were in many ways learning how to execute quickly and seeing the power of fast iteration. We wanted to develop other non-traditional aerospace partnerships because we had learned and benefited greatly from these relationships.

I really would like to see a public-private partnership to develop a cis-lunar economy. Basically, NASA conducts a Lunar COTS program where they provide part of the funding for the development of the components for lunar ice extraction, processing, and transport but the commercial companies own the equipment and processes in the end.