Nanotechnology threat?

[Bluesteel]

As a Nanotechnologist I see the technology as a positive advantage as far as off-planet development is concerned, not a threat - and that goes for terrestrial uses too. The so called Grey Goo problem is a media fantasy, good for plots of Sci-Fi novels, but little else. As for the toxicity of Nano particles there may be some relatively minor issues, but particles on a Nanoscale have been in the environment ever since the Planet cooled down.

If we can learn how to create and/or weave extremely long SWNTs then the Space Elevator is in sight, which will do more for the commercialisation of space exploration than anything else I can think of.

So I take it the sub-forum title really refers to how Nanotech is going to help avert extinction and environmental threats. I'd be happy with that :)

Julian

[Boxy]

As a proponent of nanotech, could you perhaps make a critique of how the "grey goo" problem is a non-starter?

[Bluesteel]

As a proponent of nanotech, could you perhaps make a critique of how the "grey goo" problem is a non-starter?
It would need the creation of a 'universal assembler' first of all (which would be a monumental task), one that could make use of any material surrounding it, and not all materials would be suitable. In the almost infinitely remote chance such an assembler could be built, it would also have to be able to recognise it's own type, or it would be forever assembling and dis-assembling it's on neighbours and running to a stasis position.

Such an assembler arriving by accident is equally remote for the same reasons. Some from the Foresight Institute once remarked it is about as likely as your motor car 'going rogue' and disappearing off into the woods to fend for itself. So unless you buy into the Harry Potter Universe in that instance. Check out the Foresight Institutes Ecophagy page at www.foresight.org/Nanomedicine/Ecophagy.html for more detailed examination.

It has even been proposed a 'blue goo' be developed as a counter, just in case. But I think there are far greater dangers form tampering with biological agents such as viruses and bacteria that deserve more attention well ahead of any negligible 'grey goo hazard'.

The universal assembler just isn't needed, even for the most sophisticated Nanoassembly. The best way forward looks to be the Nanofactory, which is in effect a Nanoscale production line, each section of which uses specific 'feed-stocks' and produces the next item in the chain. This is both more efficient and easier to produce than a univesal assembler - see Chris Phoenix at CRN and the Nanofactory project (also for 'grey goo') : www.crnano.org/index.html, www.crnano.org/dangers.htm#goo

Basically if a huge amount of money and time were thrown at it, some form of grey-goo assembler might be possible, but at best it would only have a very local effect and military/terrorist organisations could do far better jobs with other technologies at far less cost and complexity.

Julian

[Rhyshaelkan]

Do you envision nanites building nanites? Or would they come from a nanite factory?

Replicating nanites by the billions, just as in the trillions of cells in the human body, sometimes you will get a defective one. If this one is not eliminated it could lead to a grey goo scenario. Many limitations will have to be put on assemblers/dis-assemblers. Or to take an analogy from human blood. Most assemblers can and will be platelet or red blood cell type. Those constructing and feeding. No one nanite should have the ability to de-construct and re-construct. Then you should also have white blood cell types which govern the others. Wiping out rogue nanites.

Just my two¢

[Phenix]

Bluesteel,

This thread on nanotechnologies might have filled the gap I had in my mind toward space propulsion engines.

As I understand the nanothechnolgy assembly vs disassembly concept can be transposed on materializing vs dematarializing mass while deploying mechanical force for mass engine thread I have opened.

If that concept is applicable, It would be doing a huge step replacing gaz propulsion with sustainability for inter-obital transport for any kind of space structure ;)

[Bluesteel]

Bluesteel,

This thread on nanotechnologies might have filled the gap I had in my mind toward space propulsion engines.

As I understand the nanothechnolgy assembly vs disassembly concept can be transposed on materializing vs dematarializing mass while deploying mechanical force for mass engine thread I have opened.

If that concept is applicable, It would be doing a huge step replacing gaz propulsion with sustainability for inter-obital transport for any kind of space structure ;)
Not quite sure what you mean by 'dematerialising mass'? If you mean converting Mass to Energy? Then no, that's not what Nanotechnology is about. Most near term Nanotech is material construction and electronics based and need very specific 'feed stock' to work on - or other methods in the case of Carbon Nanotubes 3 or 4 different methods of Chemical Vapour Deposition, Arc Discharge and ablation methods.

If you go down the far-future 'dis-assembler' route, then it might be possible to create Nanosystems tuned to break down certain compounds (which is being looked at for pollution control), but I'm not sure if that's what you are thinking about.

The best use of Nano for Space Exploration will probably be with the production of highly efficient solar panels - or even a NanoSolar spray that can be applied to any surface. Safe Hydrogen and other volatile storage (using Buckyball derivatives), super strong and ultra light Carbon Nanofibre materials for all sorts of construction types and, possibly in the far future, growing faultless Big Dumb Boosters in vats as per Eric Drexlers original impetus for looking in the possibility of Nano in the first place (see his first book "Engines of Creation").

Julian

[Phenix]

Yes, rematerializing and dematerializing are pure spirit's concepts. In the physics law of conservation of momentum it simply not applicable.

Please have a look first :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_wheel

And then on my input : http://www.forumlog.com/nanobiotechnologyspace/showthread.php?t=13

you'll understand where I am heading for.

I would really like to know if it is feasible.

[Bluesteel]

Yes, rematerializing and dematerializing are pure spirit's concepts. In the physics law of conservation of momentum it simply not applicable.

Please have a look first :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_wheel

And then on my input : http://www.forumlog.com/nanobiotechnologyspace/showthread.php?t=13

you'll understand where I am heading for.

I would really like to know if it is feasible.
OK that's for attitude adjustment, I thought you meant linear propulsion.

I guess carbon nanofibre build flywheels might be able to withstand far higher levels of rpm and thus store more angular momentum, also they should have a much reduced mass making them more useful in spacecraft than their normal metal/ceramic counterparts.

Julian

[Phenix]

Perfect,

Now imagine that during flywheel turns at a regular frequency you add more mass one side and then reduce mass on the opposite side at the same time like an unbalanced wheel, you will have then a linear propulsion. An all in 1 engine.

More the wheel is unbalance more linear momentun you'll get. Put those flyweels in parallel on opposite rotation and all flyweels are unbalanced at the same time with same angle.....

I was thinking that the nanotech could shape the wheel at will ;)