"Good Enough"

[Sam Fraser]

I think this recent article in Wired:

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/miscellaneous/magazine/17-09/ff_goodenough?currentPage=1

Is quite relevant after reading this:

http://www.permanent.com/m-1stmis.htm

[joertexas]

I think this recent article in Wired:

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/miscellaneous/magazine/17-09/ff_goodenough?currentPage=1

Is quite relevant after reading this:

http://www.permanent.com/m-1stmis.htm

Yep. I've been wrestling with the idea of spinning the mining unit during the trip out and back, and I don't think it's worth the time and trouble. The miners will have to live with the effects of extended micogravity until we get a decent and cost effective solution to artifical gravity generation.

JR

[Alexander Declama]

Watching mythbusters the other day and thought of this article. They were testing the strength of duct tape. Made a sail boat, lifted a car and made an honest to god black powder cannon out of the stuff. I wonder how it holds up in vacuum.

[Rhyshaelkan]

That was a great episode of Mythbusters. Duct-tape rules. Would be quite interesting to test the vacuum properties of duct-tape.

[joertexas]

That was a great episode of Mythbusters. Duct-tape rules. Would be quite interesting to test the vacuum properties of duct-tape.

The problem with using materials in space is the extremes of heat and cold - cold being the more serious of the problems. Steel can shatter like glass at very low temperatures.

JR

[Alexander Declama]

That's why I'm wondering if anything has been done with testing the properties of duct tape in a hard vacuum. I know as it gets old, it hardens. What about as it gets cold?

[Rhyshaelkan]

http://flashnewstoday.com/index.php/robonaut-set-to-make-space-debut/

I have not really been on-board with robonauts over a human presence. However if a robonaut could be created and built and still lie within the realms of "good enough" I would be for it.

While the material gatherers and harvesters will take the shape of diggers, earth-movers, shovels, combines(my favorite :P). A couple robonauts to replace wore parts might not be that terrible of an idea.

One additional thought though will be fabrication. It would be great to, instead of launching structures from Earth for the eventual human habitation of Luna. Be able to fabricate structures from lunar materials. I believe those robonauts need be strong enough to manipulate the various light-weight extruded beams and tubes that form the structure of the habitation modules. And/or a three to four "man" team. A couple to manipulate the structural members and two to fix them into the final positions.

Mass production is the way to lower costs. Mass production is a way to reach "good enough." I hope PERMANENT'S robonauts will be of a simple to manufacture design that can be reproduced cheaply. Or out-sourced successfully. Being from the labor end of manufacture, out-sourcing always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. :P

Perhaps out of the scope for what Mark wants for PERMANENT, but I would love to see PERMANENT become the giant that makes space possible. Instead of governments and current corporations.

[moonus111]

I own a Flip, it's awesome for the ease of use!

[JohnHunt]

I have not really been on-board with robonauts over a human presence. However if a robonaut could be created and built and still lie within the realms of "good enough" I would be for it.

Hi Rhys. I think that I have been the main (only?) advocate for robonauts. I have used the R2 as an example because, I believe, that it is the foremost developed space-worthy, teleoperated robot. But actually, I am not deadset on it being THE Robonaut 2. Rather, I just want the unique functions which a teleoperated android.

These unique functions would be: binocular vision, two hands with at least three fingers, an elbow and shoulder joint on each arm, and communication equipment. It certainly doesn't need to have legs but it should have some way to move to the other equipment. It may also need to gain sufficient height in order to reach all parts of equipment.

Yes, the main function of a robonaut would, in my mind be the dextrous repair of other equipment and other robonauts. I think that the diggers, earth movers, combines??? are far more suited for doing such work than an android. But having these things and no dextrous way of repairing them...seems like you are just asking for trouble. Also, the android needs to be able to assemble things.

I firmly believe that robonauts can, through teleoperations and precision engineering, conduct sufficiently delicate operation such as inserting and tightening screws, soldering, etc. Also, equipment parts can be designed to allows for easy repair.

It is true that an astronaut can do everything that a robonaut can do. I'm just concerned about the cost and risk of astronauts. Eventually, the goal is for a human colony so the astronauts are definitely going. But early on the robonauts cost less, can arrive earlier before the landers and life support systems are fully proven, and can take greater risks. They can also stay on the Moon longer and, in fact, don't need to return. Worn out Robonauts can be used for spare parts in a way that astronauts can't.

Even for the first few decades after humans start colonizing the Moon, I would imagine that Robonauts would still be sent and/or built because teleoperating Robonauts 24/7 will probably be less expensive than sending another astronaut.

As for building inexpensive Robonauts, I can imagine fairly minimalist rovers with arms, hands, cameras, and communication equipment. I think that the the arms and motors could be created fairly easily on the Moon after humans arrive. The same is probably true with comm. equipment. As for the cameras, right now I think that that is a ways down the line. The "brains" and "eyes" would probably still need to be shipped UPS to the Moon.