Fan films

[Sam Fraser]

With the plummeting cost of HD cameras and the ever-expanding capabilities of 3D and video compositing software, it's amazing what "amateurs" are doing nowadays:

http://www.thehuntforgollum.com/

The budget was £3,000 and filmed over two years. The director "used the internet to build a huge team of volunteers". See these backgrounders for more:

http://vfxworld.com/?atype=articles&id=4031
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8022623.stm

The many Star Trek fan films that have been made also spring to mind. All that's needed is inspire the imagination of enough people and they'll happily volunteer their time and talent.

Not that I'm advocating a PERMANENT "film" as such. Filming "on location" which can reduce costs isn't really possible, for example. Among other things, a decent scriptwriter who understands how to write a compelling story is needed. Yet so many bloated Hollywood productions nowadays that could afford a decent scriptwriter are just orgies of CGI with no discernible or logical plots (Exhibit A: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen). And in this time of cutbacks and downsizing, there must be a great deal of underutilised professional talent out there in areas like 3D animation, or even "recently liberated wage slaves" :rolleyes: who suddenly have lots more free time on their hands, who can do something like this (from 2003):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_9BYSDtwRc&feature=related

I've got a high-quality version on my HD with a fun soundtrack that really adds life to this already excellent animation, but I can't find it online now. Modelling realistic humans still isn't too easy, but to illustrate a concept they don't have to be:

http://spacex.com/multimedia/videos.php?id=37

Imagine JR's multiple NEO probe 3D model animated to the beat of a techno soundtrack and using modern MTV-style music video techniques. Alternatively, a more documentary/natural/live approach could be used as demonstrated in the Mars Exploration Rover animation above and popularised by productions like the reimagined Battlestar Galactica.

[joertexas]

With the plummeting cost of HD cameras and the ever-expanding capabilities of 3D and video compositing software, it's amazing what "amateurs" are doing nowadays:

http://www.thehuntforgollum.com/

The budget was £3,000 and filmed over two years. The director "used the internet to build a huge team of volunteers". See these backgrounders for more:

http://vfxworld.com/?atype=articles&id=4031
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8022623.stm

The many Star Trek fan films that have been made also spring to mind. All that's needed is inspire the imagination of enough people and they'll happily volunteer their time and talent.

Not that I'm advocating a PERMANENT "film" as such. Filming "on location" which can reduce costs isn't really possible, for example. Among other things, a decent scriptwriter who understands how to write a compelling story is needed. Yet so many bloated Hollywood productions nowadays that could afford a decent scriptwriter are just orgies of CGI with no discernible or logical plots (Exhibit A: Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen). And in this time of cutbacks and downsizing, there must be a great deal of underutilised professional talent out there in areas like 3D animation, or even "recently liberated wage slaves" :rolleyes: who suddenly have lots more free time on their hands, who can do something like this (from 2003):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_9BYSDtwRc&feature=related

I've got a high-quality version on my HD with a fun soundtrack that really adds life to this already excellent animation, but I can't find it online now. Modelling realistic humans still isn't too easy, but to illustrate a concept they don't have to be:

http://spacex.com/multimedia/videos.php?id=37

Imagine JR's multiple NEO probe 3D model animated to the beat of a techno soundtrack and using modern MTV-style music video techniques. Alternatively, a more documentary/natural/live approach could be used as demonstrated in the Mars Exploration Rover animation above and popularised by productions like the reimagined Battlestar Galactica.


Anyone have the specs on the cameras used for this, and what the download rate would have to be to get a decent image?

JR

[Sam Fraser]

Hi JR, I've left a post on their messageboard and also sent a few PM to a co-producer and VFX artist who were involved there.

[Sam Fraser]

The VFX guy who had posted he was "Looking for more movies to work on. (low/no pay)" after working on The Hunt For Gollum has replied by e-mail. See below:

Hello Sam,

Looks very interesting! I am on another contract atm, but would like to discuss more on this one. I always wanted to do some space scenes. As a matter of fact, I am at NASA now gathering images for reference. ( Shuttle launch next week also). Ill be back in town on the 1st and we can talk more then.

Best Regards,
Dennis Fraser


This is his website:

http://www.thedungeoneer.com/

[Rhyshaelkan]

Any relation? :p

Sounds interesting. Are we looking for website flash first? Is there a home-town hottie we can use for a voiceover(think the Virgina Madsen Dune version)? Sex sells after all. Sex and science? We will have this in the bag :D

Hopefully we can make a nice clip to post on youtube and for convention presentation, if we choose to go that route.

[joertexas]

Any relation? :p

Sounds interesting. Are we looking for website flash first? Is there a home-town hottie we can use for a voiceover(think the Virgina Madsen Dune version)? Sex sells after all. Sex and science? We will have this in the bag :D

Hopefully we can make a nice clip to post on youtube and for convention presentation, if we choose to go that route.

Of course, we are missing a great business opportunity here - the first people to get laid in space ;) Imagine what someone would pay to have *that* distinction... :D

JR

[Rhyshaelkan]

Mile-high club? Eat your heart out!

[joertexas]

Mile-high club? Eat your heart out!

Oh! And we sell the pins made from asteroid-mined platinum! Oh, the riches! ;)

JR

[Mark Prado]

Of course, we are missing a great business opportunity here - the first people to get laid in space ;) Imagine what someone would pay to have *that* distinction... :D
JR

Yep, that lowest common denominator, the oldest preoccupation since gender appeared on the planet, leaving your genes in the pool, procreation, now recreation, "doin' the wild thang in high tech zero g", might draw mass interest if publicized. Sx and violence still dominate the entertainment realm of our mass consciousness.

I bet a homemade porno flick on a private airplane doing a parabolic flight to simulate zero gravity, and then flashing our logo and domain name for more info at the end of the video, would bring a wave of traffic orders of magnitude larger than anything before (such as our mention on a BBC World website about 10 years ago), but I'm not so sure it's the kind of publicity we would want!

The same for a web page showing a lot of possible positions. Hold a competition for ideas. [message censored by self] But this could alienate us from many people of various cultures in this world.

Has anybody ever done this in a parabolic zero-g flight?

And filmed it?

How much would such a flight cost?

I think you can get just a few minutes, so it would need to be a quickie!

Or else do 3D models. Not as interesting.

I'm not saying we should do this, but it's a concept interesting to analyze, because surely somebody will do this someday, and I'm sure they will get an enormous wave of publicity by such a cheap stunt.

[Sam Fraser]

Excuse me, gentlemen, but the subject of this thread is "Fan films", not "Fanny films". ;) Remember, everything you post here is going to be archived for the historical digital record. :D

[Rhyshaelkan]

As most pornos are highly edited anyway you could always piece together clips.

Now that I think about it, I remember a program History Channel's The Universe: "Sex in Space" documentary, September 13, 2008, which broke ground as the first documentary to open the topic of sex in space to a global mainstream audience.

Some other links.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080707-space-encounters.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/01/defying-gravity-launches-_n_249240.html

Science fiction author Arthur C. Clarke was quick to point out in a letter to the editor that he had beaten Collins to addressing the matter in the novel Rendezvous with Rama (1973):[19]
“ Some women, Commander Norton had decided long ago, should not be allowed aboard ship; weightlessness did things to their breasts that were too damn distracting. It was bad enough when they were motionless; but when they started to move, and sympathetic vibrations set in, it was more than any warm-blooded male should be asked to take. He was quite sure that at least one serious space accident had been caused by acute crew distraction, after the transit of an unholstered lady officer through the control cabin. ”

HAHAHAHAHA.

Private Media Group filmed a brief scene for the space-themed pornographic film The Uranus Experiment in a Russian aircraft flying a parabolic track (similar to NASA's Vomit Comet). The Uranus Experiment features around 20 seconds of pornography actors Sylvia Saint and Nick Lang (who portray astronauts living on a space station) having sex in freefall. The scene was nominated for a Nebula Award, but did not win.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_in_space

Good times.

[joertexas]

Excuse me, gentlemen, but the subject of this thread is "Fan films", not "Fanny films". ;) Remember, everything you post here is going to be archived for the historical digital record. :D

That loud thud you heard was the subject dropping straight into the basement. :D

JR

[Mark Prado]

Excuse me, gentlemen, but the subject of this thread is "Fan films", not "Fanny films". ;) Remember, everything you post here is going to be archived for the historical digital record. :D

Right! I've censored my own message. Also, we should keep this forum as G or PG.

Looking at movies, advertisements and the news, you can see that sex and violence are extremely popular in entertainment (and I consider the bias of news reporting to be somewhat entertainment, what sells, not much "news you can use").

As I abhor violence and want no part of that, we are left with the option of sex for spicing up a homemade space movie to broaden its entertainment appeal.

Or is it really worth it to broaden the appeal by reaching down further into the limbic system of viewers to stir up a response leading to more mass market publicity?

To date, I've focused on the high end of consciousness, because I know that lower minded people will neither be interested in helping out or donating. More publicity doesn't necessarily mean significantly more support. There are also the longer term image repercussions. Tradeoffs.

The inclusion of sex into a video merely serves as a publicity stunt to get mention of it into the news, on blogs, etc., which increases the chances of exposure to people who will consider its other merits.

Personally, I don't like the inclusion of sex, especially as regards non-adults, but everybody's different. (Indeed, that's the problem, the vast majority of people are different enough that they are not seriously interested in doing anything to improve the world, beyond lip service, just hedonistically consume and trash the environment.) If we want to attract news coverage or mere mention of our movie, we will get some mileage out of a good theme, but would get a whole lot more mention if it had a zero gravity sex scene, unfortunately. Maybe some suggestive scene without losing a PG rating.

Or two versions, the PG and the R rated ones.

I guess we could sit someone on a rotating stool and take a video of them from the waist up or shoulders up, or something like that.

For non sex scenes, just riding a cable may work for simulating zero g.

Not easy to do zero g without zero g. Can't do it perfectly but could do it well enough.

[Rhyshaelkan]

Heh, my original point was to have a good looking woman, home town hottie, with a good voice do some nice voice actress work when she does the monologue of "We at permanent in order to form a more perfect union" or somesuch :p, can appeal to both the logical and emotional sides of the viewer. We do not have to do porn, to know that sex sells.

Were we to have the improbable privilege of hiring a classic beauty such as Jane Seymour for the images and monologue. Or the younger and equally beautiful Penelope Cruz to be an image-head for our commercial/video...

[Sam Fraser]

Yes, we could employ full thrust, shoot for the star(let)s and go where no man has come, er, gone before.

Now, did that make you cringe?

Well, if we go down this road, that's what we risk doing: making others cringe - and then write us off. Let's appeal to people's intellect, not their libido.

[Mark Prado]

Now, did that make you cringe?

Well, if we go down this road, that's what we risk doing: making others cringe - and then write us off. Let's appeal to people's intellect, not their libido.

Yes, I cringed. And I agree.

It's good we hash out this issue now, whether to ever use space sex themes -- from as mild as sexily dressed ladies like in Star Trek, to the opposite extreme of outright porno -- and decide where to draw the line because it will come up over and over. In fact, this issue has been discussed many times before in various circles. So here starts our archive on the debate on this issue, here on ForumLog.com (my domain on my server, so it will be backed up and always here, for better or worse!).

One thing I've learned from experience is that more publicity and sex appeal does not translate into proportionately more volunteers or financial support. I don't agree with trying to appeal to Joe Sixpack because Joe Sixpack will always spend money on the next beer before he will buy a book or make a donation, and as a volunteer will be a time waster as when there's any work to do he will defer to another beer instead and flake out.

After about 12 years online, millions of unique visitor IPs, and over 1000 volunteers (maybe thousands in the plural form), we have received only a handful of small donations, a few hundred book buyers, and a few dozen volunteers who amounted to much. Sam and I can tell you about a hundred or so time wasters who had skills but didn't apply them. And 1000 or more enthusiastic inquiries which were transient enthusiasm.

I don't think sex appeal will improve our results.

We get surges when PERMANENT is mentioned on TV or in a news article, but rarely do they translate into quality volunteers or donations, usually just a few more books sold. I doubt that a sex appeal stunt will improve on the results from a BBC News article.

By "time wasters", I mean people who have skills and they carry on a long dialogue with us, then we make a plan for them to do something -- programing, artwork, simple research (as easy as a database of space journalists, or on some space topic), a simple engineering design, etc. -- and then when it comes time to produce they just disappear, drop out. So we've wasted our time. Some of them had even requested a free copy of the book be mailed to them at our expense, which we reluctantly did, and that should have been a warning sign.

People new to PERMANENT are usually enthusiastic, but the novelty wears off and they move on to the next book or click to the next website.

Having worked with other nonprofit organizations in Washington, D.C., mostly nonspace, I know all about the newsletter/magazine/membership subscription syndrome and scraping along. The successful ones often got 1 or 2 big donors which dwarfed the sum total of all the small donations. The rest scraped along, raising enough money by newsletter/magazine/membership subscriptions to support a few staff, but generally spun their wheels and didn't get far. Unless they went for government support. Or got a big sponsor or two.

There are exceptions, but the above is the norm, not the exception.

So I don't think there is much in the mass market, if you can see what I mean.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm open to counter arguments. Maybe some cheap publicity stunt will bring PERMANENT to the attention of someone who will see its real merit after something cheap got their attention thru some news media organization or website or blog...

Besides myself and Sam, the only large donation we've ever gotten was a 1000 British pound donation in 2002. The second biggest was a few hundred dollars by a librarian volunteer (spread out over a few years). The third biggest donation was $27.

We have gotten far more from about 3 dozen volunteers, who we normally wouldn't take money from if they're giving us quality time and skill.

However, with mass publicity, I'm afraid we would get only thousands of time wasters.

If somebody is willing to be the public relations department of PERMANENT and see if you can do better than myself and Sam, well, the position is open and I hope you're much better at it than I am.

I and Sam decided that we had tried donations and publicity and it didn't work after 5 years, so we would start a business, scale it up, and fund PERMANENT ourselves, the same way I had funded it myself from 1985 to the time Sam arrived as volunteer artist and programmer (which made a great difference).

One part of my focus is getting the technical literature database updated, and then contacting those people who are competently doing good things to see what kinds of specific projects we can come up with for cooperation and funding.

Then try to find funding for those particular projects, in conjuction with project leaders or other organizations or entities, or work from student volunteers and the like for a start.

We won't get this from the mass market. We will get this from specifically targeted, proven people. The real work.

Then maybe we can go to the philanthropic investors with more concrete projects.

This is why PERMANENT is "Projects to Employ Resources ..." -- to publicize and support any good projects by any good entity.

Many other space groups have tried going to the mass market. O'Neill's SSI scraped by on Senior Associates and lesser memberships, but got its big money from just a few entities. Then went nearly dormant. L-5 was widely popular but barely scraped by, then its top staff at the head office on pitiful salaries sold out to NSI in Washington DC to become NSS, and you know the story after that. Artemis Society ... similar. And many others.

I'm not keen for PERMANENT to go that route.

Fan clubs often don't amount to much. But maybe a better PERMANENT public relations department could change that.

In my opinion, the extent of our use of sex should just be something like tastefully dressed ladies with pretty faces and handsome men. I prefer ordinary looking people in artwork, not handsome or pretty, but I would bend to others' opinions. Human nature means the more serotonin in the reaction, the better the synapse connections and attitude, typically, and that's why advertising billboards have pretty ladies and handsome men on them...

If someone is really successful in coming up with a space video, then maybe I could be persuaded a bit to go along and support some more liberal and risky themes. (I'm fairly liberal myself, but I respect others' viewpoints, especially mind over animal.)

For anything I originate, I would rather appeal to the neopallium of peoples' brains, not the basal lowest common denominator, to get the quality people who are reliable, not egotistically bask in a fan club that doesn't produce much and doesn't get our species out of the biosphere in time before it's too late.

Others' contrary opinions are very welcome here.

I'd love to come up with our own movie. I'd just rather it focus on the real future and be targeted at a few thousand leaders in society, than be a publicity stunt for millions of couch potatoes.

It's kind've like TV shows, the movies, and the news. Lots of sex, violence, and mindless entertainment for the masses. But what does it amount to, other than its advertising revenue?

I'd rather have a documentary fit to present to Discovery Channel or National Geographic or something like that, or a DVD to mail out to philanthropic investors.

Or maybe, if we get enough people involved in this, we could have multiple movies and see how it goes.

Branding and name recognition are important.

Again, contrary opinions are welcome. That's what this forum is all about.

Sorry if I digressed and rambled. I just have to think about how this movie fits into the big picture and our goals.

If we are limited in manpower and budget, then we must make decisions. But if we get lots of volunteers, then we can do the full court press and diversify our efforts. It will probably come down to doing what people enjoy most, and maybe something is better than nothing.

After the post on the story of breasts oscillating in space, I did get reminded of PERMANENT when I saw mammaries bouncing on the sidewalks today. B-) Oh, that reminds me, I will go back and check out that cool PERMANENT website...

[Sam Fraser]

Much better put than me, Mark. Sorry if I just came across as a humourless prude. It's just Mark and I have been down many false paths with time wasters and dead enders. If only you all knew what Mark and I have been throu- uh oh, I'm starting to sound like an insufferable know-it-all as well! ;)

[Mark Prado]

uh oh, I'm starting to sound like an insufferable know-it-all as well! ;)

Yes, and I want to emphasize that I hope somebody proves me wrong!!

I do know that many other organizations had the same experiences as I and Sam had.

Nonetheless, it is <b>possible</b> to build up some sort of volunteer and support system which could come up with projects to work on and get something useful done.

We could do better. We must do better.

My first personal project is just catching up on the last 7 years

If there's an amateur flick developed, then I could be only a very tiny part of its development.

My focus right now is reviewing the most recent literature and developments over the past several years (I closely kept up with practically everything from the early 1980s thru 2002), updating and developing the quality publications and people databases, getting the website Content Management System (CMS) completed, and trying to help others get going on their projects here like this forum. Actually, I have a long list of projects to do. The amateur flick isn't one of them, but I would like to encourage it as best I can, which I guess isn't much.

[Sam Fraser]

If there's an amateur flick developed, then I could be only a very tiny part of its development.

Yes, I wouldn't suggest taking on a movie project as such, either. It was mainly the low/no-budget VFX aspect of this "amateur flick". :) I had in mind "simple" 100% CGI-animated clips and promos from 30 seconds to a few minutes. Designing and animating space scenes is relatively easy, since it's just modular space vehicles, stations and facilities, models of the Earth, moon and at least one asteroid, and a single distant light source as the sun, nothing organic. Almost all 3D software can do all the hard physics nowadays stuff like light flares, variable gravity and particle effects automatically. It just takes a talented 3D designer and some spare time. I'd happily do it myself, but learning 3D to a level where I can churn out fairly good models fairly fast isn't an option. I'm already amazed at what JR is doing with relatively basic software. Hence, my contacting this VFX artist looking for another low/no-budget project.

[Mark Prado]

Designing and animating space scenes is relatively easy, since it's just modular space vehicles, stations and facilities, models of the Earth, moon and at least one asteroid, and a single distant light source as the sun, nothing organic. Almost all 3D software can do all the hard physics nowadays stuff like light flares, variable gravity and particle effects automatically. It just takes a talented 3D designer and some spare time.

What I think we need is a sort of documentary and fundraiser video, explaining what PERMANENT is all about, its benefits, why we need it, and the closer about a personal decision whether or not to help support us.

[joertexas]

What I think we need is a sort of documentary and fundraiser video, explaining what PERMANENT is all about, its benefits, why we need it, and the closer about a personal decision whether or not to help support us.

I'm willing to do some storyboard pics with the software I have. I don't have the Pro version, but I can at least put some shapes up so we can frame scenes.

JR

[Sam Fraser]

The Raven, supposedly shot on a budget of five grand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il5xxb6Y_lg&

[Sam Fraser]

More innovative funding through crowdsourcing:

The Tunnel, a movie about a news crew that explores Sydney's mysterious collection of underground tunnels, is being financed by online donations. Interested parties can purchase a frame for a buck. And as of a few minutes ago, 22,492 out of 135,000 frames have been sold.

http://io9.com/5710397/completely-crowd-financed-film-the-tunnel-could-be-better-than-the-descent

[Jeff Motheral]

I think this is a great thread. Speaking of videos, you may want to check out this one that was posted on YouTube just a few days ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY59wZdCDo0&feature=youtu.be

The person who put it together said:

"I got frustrated with NASA and made this video. NASA is the most fascinating, adventurous, epic institution ever devised by human beings, and their media sucks. Seriously. None of their brilliant scientists appear to know how to connect with the social media crowd, which is now more important than ever. In fact, NASA is an institution whose funding directly depends on how the public views them."

"In all of their brilliance, NASA seems to have forgotten to share their hopes and dreams in a way the public can relate to, leaving one of humanity's grandest projects with terrible PR and massive funding cuts. I have a lot of ideas for a NASA marketing campaign, but I doubt they'd pay me even minimum wage to work for them. I literally have an MSWord document entitled NASAideas.doc full of ideas waiting to share. I thought maybe, just maybe someone might be able to work their magic for me on that. But the primary point of this post is to vent my frustration with NASA. Sure, they've fallen victim to budget cuts but I honestly think cutting media will seal NASA's own fate. Unless they can find a way to relate to the general public, support for their projects will always be minimal, and their funding will follow suit. A social media department would easily pay for itself in government grants because it could rekindle the public interest in the space program."

Awesome video! Too bad he's kicking a dead horse.

Creating a video and doing crowd funding would be a great idea. Granted, publicity attracts time wasters. The website already does that.

How about creating a symposium targeted to investors and going on tour?

[moonus111]

I don't know who this guy is but I have to track him down now.

[joertexas]

I don't know who this guy is but I have to track him down now.

I'd like a promotional video for the Moon Shot mission. I don't have a clue how to do that, though..

JR

[sgeos]

I'd like a promotional video for the Moon Shot mission. I don't have a clue how to do that, though..

You either need someone with a lot of free time and the right skills, or you need to buy someone with the right skill set (probably not cheap).

[Sam Fraser]

I think this is a great thread. Speaking of videos, you may want to check out this one that was posted on YouTube just a few days ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY59wZdCDo0&feature=youtu.be

An amazing video with a simple yet profound message that will connect with many. That's what it's all about: connecting with people, their hearts, their hopes and dreams.